Believe it or not, I intended this conversation to be about empathy from the start. (My original post ends: “Can’t those of us so concerned about this in our writing, in our work at least acknowledge that we are doing this too? Do we think much about how those not in this world feel? Or those on the edge of it?”). I deliberately didn’t use the word empathy itself because I feared it might offend (that some might feel I was implying they were lacking in it), little knowing that was the least of what would offend!

This was my first experience having a major conversation going on on my blog and it really taught me how different blogging is from list serve participation. While I could have started and then decided to drip out of such a discussion on child_lit, it wasn’t possible for me to do that here. I mean I could have, but it would have been like playing a game in my backyard and then going off in a huff when I felt misunderstood leaving the rest to go on without me until my mom told them their parents were calling for them to go home for dinner. A fascinating experience both for the illuminating comments and for learning more about the whole way blogs work.

Looking forward to the next conversation about… whatever it might be!

That said, I have found the kidlit bloggers as a whole to be *very* welcoming (much more then other communities). I think that this is because there is a common interest that binds them together. I know that when I linked to several kid lit blogs (in a post that was talking about how much kidlit blogs enrich my homeschooling), I immediately got links back and comments from many kidlit folks like Mother Reader and Big A Little a. Of course this happened at a time when I had to cut back on blogging so I was not able to take advantage of it LOL! But the thing is that it is a welcoming community (I was NOT expecting links back, I was merely trying to share some awesome resources).

If you really want to see how cliquish feelings can affect blogging, google “blogher 2006″ and see the bad feelings betw many of the bloggers and the mommy blogs. Jealousy reigned as some groups got more “attention”. I watched from the sidelines this summer and this is what convinced me that I did not care how popular my blog was. That I was blogging for me and if others enjoy it too, that is gravy.

I am not sure how you can create a totally open community where everyone feels accepted from the get go. A community by definition does not include everyone. And, human nature being what it is, many folks are going to feel intimidated about making that first step to join. So while I agree with your points Monica about how it can be perceived as intimidating (and we need to be aware of that), I also agree with the other points about how a community can only do so much to include people…it is also up to those people to make the first steps to being included.

Just my two cents, from someone outside the kidlits sphere who greatly enjoys and appreciates the knowledge and wit shared by it.

Myself, I will continue to empathize with those feeling marginalized and insecure in many environments including this one. Or child_lit, a community that I’m very much at home in, but that others here mentioned as being intimidating.

It so happens that someone did write me saying I’d hurt his/her feelings and someone else made mention of hurt feelings in a comment somewhere, can’t remember where, there have been so many. And I felt badly for having done so. So I guess I do feel responsible.

I don’t think of humans as being “flawed,” just working their way to figure out the complexities of human relationships. Just being human.

Now, if there was a pattern of that or any made up person leaving a comment saying “hey, include me. here’s my Poetry Friday entry” and then the kidlitosphere NOT including said poster, that would be different. Or if there were barriers put up to make contributing harder… again, different. You did not find any example of that, so I don’t see how your example supports your argument. What am I missing?

I agree with you that any community, virtual or real, that is full of humans will be flawed. I don’t think anyone can deny that. But then to hear you speak of an “elephant in the room” as if the issue you mention hasn’t been broached before…. With all due respect, these issues are at the very heart of every blogging community… of every social network… of every online interaction. I’ve had this conversation in every community, including the children’s literature one, I’ve been involved with online, and I’ve been online regularly since 1983. So part of the reaction you’re seeing here is akin, I suspect, to you being at a convention of teachers and having someone stand up and say “Why does no one speak of the fact that a class full of second graders read at different levels?”

I cannot imagine, by the way, you’ve hurt any feelings, nor would I think anyone would suddenly up and leave you or your blog. That’d be rather silly, seems to me. But if they did, wouldn’t that be their choice? Should you not have posted your opinion? And since you did post, do you feel you have to take responsibility for others reactions and actions?

“So yes, the Poetry Friday tradition is indeed truly and completely open to all, but to someone a bit unsure, new to the children’s lit world, to blogging, and such it could still appear to be something done by a bunch of folks who appear to all know each other (whether they do or not).” Italics mine

The kidlitosphere cannot take responsiblity for how an individual feels or how things appear to him or her. There has to be some individual accoutability for ones own feelings or perceptions.

Blogging is great place to get over some level of shyness, but in the end it’s up to the individual to be part of the community – if she even wants to. Our community gives so many chances for people to jump in the pool- Poetry Friday, Children’s Literature Carnivals, The Edge of the Forest Articles, discussion questions, memes – but we can’t help it if some people are afraid of water. The individual needs to take ownership of that problem and face that fear or take swimming lessons. (Though in this analogy we all know how to swim, i.e. write.)

I’m a classic outsider, and generally pretty shy, but I’ve never felt outside here. Tasha was very nice when I wrote to her, and she encouraged me to start blogging. Michele and Kelly both started reading and commenting on my blog almost from the beginning, no matter how lame those early posts were, and others followed soon after. And in spite of the fact that she claims not to be anyone’s blog mom, MotherReader actually emailed me out of the blue to invite me to participate in the 48 hour challenge; it’s true that her blog hadn’t been around long then, but she’s definitely one of the cool kids and it made me feel included.

I think that, as others have mentioned, there are some people being excluded just because of the sheer number of bloggers, and the increasing number of new bloggers starting every day. It’s impossible to keep up. In spite of that, I think the established bloggers are making a valiant effort to include as many as possible. Liz is running a “blog a day” feature, and Kelly shouts out and links to many many new blogs. While we were organizing the Cybils, Kelly and Anne made inclusiveness almost a mantra; they were determined to include as many bloggers as possible.

Are there people who feel excluded or get their feelings hurt? Undoubtedly. I know of a couple of recent examples. But it’s not through lack of effort on the part of the more established members of the community. We need to be aware that there may be bloggers out there feeling that way, and we need to continue to do what we can to include as many as possible, but there only so much that one can do.

As a side note, I actually feel much more intimidated by the child_lit listserv. There’s so many smart and knowledgeable people on that listserv, that I’m afraid to post. I don’t have an MLS or a degree in literature, I’m just an ordinary person who happens to love children’s books, and I’m afraid that my posts will sound stupid. Also, there are a couple of strong personalities on that list with strong opinions that I sometimes disagree with, but I’m afraid to post my disagreement for fear that I’ll be flamed. So I mostly lurk, and feel excluded.

Oh, and I wanted to add a note to Michele that I don’t find you dull at all and would love to read an interview with you!

Even though I’m standing here all by my lonely on this (and I again apologize for any and all hurt-feelings resulting from my evidently clumsy post on this topic), based on conversations and observations over many years I would argue that the issue does exist among adults in the real and virtual worlds, including this area of children’s lit bloggers. That there are no comments from those who feel excluded is unsurprising to me. The strong voices here may well make it difficult for someone who does feel excluded, especially a shy newbie, to comment in this very public forum. The only reason I am comfortable standing out alone like this is that I feel that I’m among friends (even if many are in profound disagreement with me right now), people I know and have met either in the virtual world or the real one. There is no way I’d have written that post or this comment if I didn’t feel fairly safe and secure that people knew me enough to not drum me out of this world for doing so or hate me forever:)

And so now, lonely as it may be, in response to the many posts on this topic, I have to disagree with most of you. To my mind this is not something particular to children, to schooling, or to blogging— it is true for all of these situations and others — it is the human condition. To my mind, we human beings are constantly trying to find our place in the world, trying to find a balance between the greater community and the smaller affinity groups, always teetering one way or another. What may seem totally inclusive to one of us may seem dauntingly exclusive to another. And so, the way I see it, no matter how well-intentioned, sincere, and open something may be, there is always the possibility that there are folks who feel left out.

Since I foolishly used the truly lovely tradition of Poetry Friday as an example, let me take you through a possible exclusionary scenario with it. Perhaps someone who has recently started a blog happens across the idea and decides to post a poem. Yet, feeling completely unknown by the better-known participants this individual does not feel confident enough to even write about the post in the comments of whoever is doing the weekly roundups. And so only his/her friends and family perhaps know about it and the individual feels lousy about that and doesn’t do it again. This may sound absurd to someone with a more outgoing personality, but others, especially shy folks (of which I’m one) could very well have this response. So yes, the Poetry Friday tradition is indeed truly and completely open to all, but to someone a bit unsure, new to the children’s lit world, to blogging, and such it could still appear to be something done by a bunch of folks who appear to all know each other (whether they do or not).

And about those dinners and parties. I went to the NCTE convention for decades on my own without being invited to a single publisher’s party or dinner. And even though I knew many people at the convention, they all stuck to their groups and it did not occur to them to invite me to join them for anything. Now things are very different for me, but I remember that situation vividly. And so when I was having drinks last fall with some child_lit folks at last fall’s NCTE convention I cringed in sympathy when someone said she’d see us all later at a publisher event and a couple of others said they hadn’t been invited. Knowing that everyone isn’t going makes me uncomfortable posting about these parties although I totally enjoy reading others’ posts on them. And I have and will again write a comment about an event (as I did about the Snicket thing last year).

Thanks a lot for all the passionate posts and comments on this topic.

If I sounded apologetic, I apologise – I was very tired when I wrote that comment. I was just trying to pick up on at least a couple of things (Poetry Friday and the Carnival of Children’s Literature) that could possibly be considered as “touting” for links – since being included in the Carnival or a PF round-up automatically brings your Blog to others’ attention – and as I just said, I get very embarrassed when people pay me a lot of attention ! Which I realise begs the question of why I Blog in the first place – and the answer is, as I said last night, to have a place to rave about books and book-related matters. I started my Blog after my best friend died because I missed our daily chats about books and writing, and I was wary of boring my mostly non-reading co-workers with my enthusiasms… I seriously didn’t expect to keep up the Blog for long as I thought I’d find it too time-consuming and stop. I’m very glad that it’s allowed me to become part of a huge virtual community in which I try to play a small but useful part, whilst also being aware of the fact that I’m not very good at networking and that I am very self-sufficient…

That’s another meandering post – that’s what comes of writing before caffeine, I suspect ! Sorry, Monica, I didn’t mean to blather on!